Jim Campilongo - The Virtual Woodshed Interview
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Story and Interview by Brian Williams When multi-Grammy Award winning artist Norah Jones drafts you for a major project, that’s a pretty good sign that things are going well. Such is the life of Jim Campilongo, the man who is pushing the limits of what is possible with a Fender Telecaster. Using nothing but 1950’s era equipment, Jim has become known worldwide for being able create hypnotic and otherworldly tones. For the uninitiated, this can be at times both frightening and shocking. You may find yourself in the midst of a song like "I’m Helen Keller and You’re a Waffle Iron" and think to yourself, “I didn’t realize a Princeton Reverb would do that”. Or you might be listening to one of his beautiful ballad arrangements and think to yourself, "I didn’t know a Tele had a tremolo arm", or "hmm, is that a Leslie cabinet there?" But of course, Tele’s don’t have whammy bars and Jim doesn’t use a Leslie. All these sounds and more are happening organically, right under Jim’s fingers. And this only scratches the surface of the Jim Campilongo enigma.
A self effacing, yet confident player, Jim is pretty far removed from the cadre of "good ‘ol boy" Tele pickers in Austin and Nashville. And that’s perfectly OK by him. Even though “most people in NY expect [him] to be a country player”, he has little interest in becoming a lightning speed chicken picker like Brent Mason or John Jorgenson. Those guys already have that market covered. Instead, Jim seems content to be the only guy on the planet who can do what he does. Take this example: picking up a guitar, Jim plays the melody to the Thelonious Monk standard "Round Midnight". "The tune is like this" he says, playing it pretty straight. "But I figured it out like this" he says with a grin, as he proceeds to open up the melody with his trademark dissonance and ringing open strings. Indeed, Jim has found a way to exploit nearly every aspect of the Telecaster, and as such he is creating sounds which have never been heard before. For this month’s story, we had the wonderful opportunity to spend a couple hours with Jim for what he calls "his best interview ever". We are inclined to agree! In fact, Jim covers a remarkable number of subjects in what is probably the most comprehensive interview ever conducted with the ubiquitous guitarist. Jim freely discusses his main influences like Chet Atkins and Roy Buchanan but he also offers some influences and opinions that you may not have expected. You’ll get a candid and behind the scenes glimpse into the recording sessions for the Little Willies, Norah Jones’ celebrated country project. Guitar heads will enjoy hearing Jim explain why it’s important to keep taking guitar lessons and why equipment really doesn’t matter all that much. But what we found most interesting was Jim’s ability to answer any given question in a well thought out essay, almost as if he had been prepped for the question. (We promise he wasn’t.) In any event, we hope that you enjoy our latest featured article on the amazing and mesmerizing Jim Campilongo. Sit back, grab a cold beverage and prepare to take in some serious guitar wisdom. Let us know what you think. Virtual Woodshed: Jim, let’s start off by talking about your early years. Growing up in San Francisco, what was the first music you heard that inspired you to play? Jim Campilongo: Well I had two older sisters, so I heard a lot of music from them starting when I was five or so. I was pretty young. I remember my sisters listened to Hendrix and Dylan. I remember the Easy Rider soundtrack pretty vividly. There was a group called The Incredible String Band, Dan Hicks and the Hot Licks; I really liked all of that stuff and I used to "eaves drop" so to speak. One sister was eight years older and the other was four years older and when you’re seven, that’s a big difference. I think the first LP I ever bought was Jimi Hendrix’ Greatest Hits, the one with the little poster inside. I think I was eleven or so. And then I started buying some really good stuff. I knew I liked improvisation and long musical journeys, but I didn’t know what it was and I didn’t know how to define that. So I used to buy albums based exclusively on how long the tracks were. I would go through all the [record] bins and if I found a track that was eleven minutes, I would buy the album. That’s how I discovered John Coltrane Live in Japan, John McLaughlin Devotion, a couple of different Cream albums. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bvua4unz-JI Virtual Woodshed: As a twelve year old you’re doing this? Jim Campilongo: Umm, yeah, yeah [chuckles], with my paper route money! It wasn’t like downloading MP3’s from some pirate site. I’d have to go look at the record and then save up some money. So anyway, I ended up buying some really cool stuff and I saw the Roy Buchanan PBS special on television, and at some point I decided I wanted to play guitar. And here I am thirty eight years later, I can still put on those records and [get something out of them]. In fact, I put on Coltrane’s Live in Japan about a week ago and was still blown away by it. Virtual Woodshed: How old were you when you discovered the Roy Buchanan PBS special? Jim Campilongo: I think I was about thirteen. Funny enough, my Dad called me in to watch it. I was in my room reading comics or something and my father calls me in to see this guy play. I don’t know if that single event changed my life, but it was certainly a monumental and significant event that led to the course of what I’ve done with my life. Virtual Woodshed: So you didn’t play guitar at that point? Jim Campilongo: No, I did not. Virtual Woodshed: And the Roy TV special inspired you to go out and get one? Jim Campilongo: Yeah.
Virtual Woodshed: Did you start with a Telecaster right off the bat then? Jim Campilongo: No. I started with a Green Stamps acoustic which I played for two or three years. Then I got another acoustic that was kind of playable. And then later I started borrowing a Teisco Del Rey from this guy in the neighborhood. Someone gave me a Kalamazoo amp and I guess I played that rig til I was about seventeen or so. I was certainly no prodigy, but all I did was practice. So I got pretty good fairly quickly. By age seventeen I could kind of sound like Neil Schon. My first "official" electric at this time was a Gibson ES-330. [ed note: the ES-330 is a fully hollow 1st cousin to the ES-335]. And then I got a Les Paul and a [Fender] Twin Reverb amplifier. The Les Paul was a ‘54 and it had single coil pickups [ed note: Gibson P-90's]. I got it for $700! Virtual Woodshed: Do you still have it? Jim Campilongo: No! I sold it. Real genius on my part [laughs]. Anyway, that reminds me, I’ve never owned a guitar with humbucking pickups. Even the Les Paul I played had single coils so things always sounded "Tele-like". I can’t remember exactly when I got a tele but, it was probably in the late 80’s. Virtual Woodshed: Oh, so it took you a while to arrive at the Tele. How did that progress? Jim Campilongo: Yeah. Well, I played a ‘62 Strat for a long time and one of the reasons is that I like to just "park" with one guitar. I really don’t want a lot of guitars and I don’t want to switch a lot. Recently I started playing a Gibson ES-225 that I bought a few years ago because I’ve been doing this jazz duet thing, and I played it so much that my Tele got uncomfortable. In fact, when I was playing the tele at a gig during that time, I went to reach for the toggle switch on the top of the guitar [where it would be on a Gibson ES-225]. I thought, uh oh, my motor skills are getting messed up here. And frankly, I’m sure people who hire me would be disappointed if I showed up to do my thing with a Gibson, but I could happily play a Gibson 225 the rest of my life. Virtual Woodshed: Really? Your entire catalog and repertoire? Jim Campilongo: Whatever, yeah! That thing has a complete different approach, but it still sounds like me. I suppose I can’t do behind the nut bends, but I can do something else that approximates that. Usually it’s just my inclination to do what any given guitar will do. I mean, that Gibson gets some really cool feedback and it has some really punchy, woofy sounds, and I enjoy it for that. So that’s kind of why I played the Strat for so long. I think I’m easily satisfied and my relationship with the guitar is really about the music I’m making and it doesn’t have much to do with what my amp is biased at. Even though I know way more than I should about those topics, like speakers and tubes and so forth, I still get a little perplexed by people who dwell on those things. For instance, when I get together with a good guitar player, we never, ever discuss equipment. I mean, I haven’t met Buddy Miller and maybe he might! But if I get together with Steve Cardenas or Adam Levy who are my friends and peers out here [in NY] those guys might share something they picked up from a Ted Greene lesson or how they look at half diminished chords. I find that much more interesting and infinite than this stuff like "let’s lift the hood of the car and stare at the engine all summer". So not to sound negative or alienate your entire readership, but ultimately I’d be OK playing through an old Kalamazoo amp so I could figure out some way to modulate from Db to E major. To me, that’s what totally captures my imagination.
Virtual Woodshed: A good example of that concept would be that video you did for Fender in which you demo’ed the new Princeton Reverb reissue amp. I noticed that you used a bone stock, brand new Princeton, but you still sounded like yourself. That said, what are the most important aspects of achieving a good tone since you have such a monstrous one? Jim Campilongo: Well, I appreciate that, and I get a lot of email along those lines. For starters, I put as much information as I can on my website, but people still find cracks and crevaces in it. I suppose I’m turning into some sort of junior Eric Johnson by answering all these equipment related questions. I guess what I find perplexing is that I would never think that I could sound like Adam Levy or Eric Johnson just because I got their amps, or Blind Lemon Jefferson if I got his acoustic guitar. But as far as what I consider important or maybe why I sound like I do, is I put the amp’s bass control (if there’s a middle control) all the way on "10". I don’t even listen to the amp and I do that. For the treble, I’ll listen first then make adjustments. And no one else really does that because it’s a "no-no" or whatever and I find that curious. But to me, you never lack high end in your Telecaster, so I start from a really bassy starting point and I’m usually very satisfied with that. Then the other big thing is I will play on whatever pickup position offers the best sound in that room depending on floor surface, whether it be carpet, wood or cement. I will not say, "well I always play this in treble position and damn it, I’m gonna play it there now even though it doesn’t sound good tonight." I mean, I’ll just switch pickup positions. Probably the other thing I do more than most players is I will adjust where I pick the string. To almost a fault I pick right next to the bridge saddle and I’ve noticed that my picks get a little sawed off. But I like that sound. It’s a trebly sound but it isn’t with a lot of high end. If you’re hitting it right next to the saddle it fills it out but it also takes a little of the high end off and it gets kind of a funky, Roy Nichols sound. So I think that all those factors contribute to getting a sound. For instance, if I go to a new venue and my amp is buzzing like a chainsaw in treble position, then I’ll just adjust and I won’t play in that position because I’d rather sound pretty good in middle position than terrible in treble position just because that’s where I wanted to be. Virtual Woodshed: Let’s switch gears and talk about influences for a minute. A big part of what you do is derived from fingerstyle playing. For instance, on a song like "Awful Pretty, Pretty Awful" from your new CD Orange, you really prove that you’ve got that Chet Atkins style mastered. Can you talk about that for a minute? Jim Campilongo: Well thanks. I really appreciate that. Chet to me was one of the greatest guitar players of the 20th century. He taught me a tasteful, musical and composed style of playing. He’s like the antithesis of a Link Wray or something, who I really like too. But I love how clever Chet’s playing is. I mean, Django is a fiery, monumental guitarist and his music almost sounds like nature. He was probably one of the most clever players of the 20th century, but Chet was the cleverest of all. Sometimes people don’t like his music because they find that every hair is in place. But Chet had great guitar voicings and the most important thing I learned from him is that no song is beneath me. I have over 100 Chet Atkins albums and they’re all really good. And you’ll hear him play songs like Mrs. Robinson, Alley Cat, or Feelin’ Groovy and you’re thinking, "gee, what’s that gonna sound like?!" He makes fantastic music with great harmonic choices, so I’ve always remembered that when I’m playing a song that I don’t particularly like. I feel like it’s my mission to make whatever song I’m asked to play truly beautiful, because Chet Atkins could’ve done it. Besides all that, he was a virtuoso! He brought the Merle Travis approach to a more commercial audience and he took it a step further harmonically. I also respect the fact that he kept getting better by playing with guys like Jerry Reed and Lenny Breau. As far as specific things I’ve learned from Chet, I would say 6th chords, ways to play melody, the usage of open strings and generally exploiting the strengths of the guitar. Sometimes I feel like some jazz guitar doesn’t always exploit the whole instrument. Virtual Woodshed: Are you referring to how jazz players tend to not use open strings and just focus on one part of the tonal spectrum? Jim Campilongo: Well, for instance, Wes Montgomery leaves me astonished, but sometimes I really can’t tell you what the song is about. It’s that way with Joe Pass playing "Do Nothing ‘Til You Hear From Me". I listen to that and I think wow, that’s really great guitar playing and it’s real music, but I don’t really know what the song is about. Whereas if you listen to the Duke Ellington version you really get it. Sometimes the whole sound that is associated with jazz guitar has nothing to do with Louis Armstrong. Nothing. And that’s why I like Charlie Christian and even Howard Roberts ’cause those guys played with a little "umph" back there! And getting back to Chet, that’s what I really liked about him. Because he said, "OK, we’re gonna take this instrument that has a clumsy tuning and was originally designed for Spanish guitar music and we’re going to exploit it for chromatic music and create something that is beautiful and charming and captivating". Virtual Woodshed: When you’re playing in that style of fingerpicking, do you find that it’s a totally different mindset from playing with a flatpick? Is it like playing a different instrument? Jim Campilongo: No, not at all. I hybrid pick and there is definitely a compromise there. Virtual Woodshed: Oh. So you’re doing all that Chet style material with a flatpick? Jim Campilongo: Yeah. And so, there’s a definite compromise, and because of that I’ll never go to the Chet Atkins playoff in Nashville and place in the top twenty. [ed note: Jim is referring to the guitar convention every July in Nashville hosted by the Chet Atkins Appreciation Society.] Generally those guys all play with a thumb pick and work on it almost exclusively which is probably the appropriate thing if you were going to play convincingly in the Chet Atkins style. Honestly, I really don’t feel like I’m all that good at the style. Maybe just the fact that I can do it as well as I can is notable or something!
Virtual Woodshed: Well, it really rounds out your playing and adds a neat facet to it. For instance, something like "Awful Pretty" is a million miles from "I’m Helen Keller" [ed note: both songs are on Jim's CD Orange] but you somehow manage to make it all work on the same record which is remarkable. How do make so many styles work together? Jim Campilongo: Thanks. Yeah, we were really pushing the envelope on Orange as far as it being eclectic. I really had to trust the producer Anton Fier because I was apprehensive about that. I didn’t want it to be too eclectic. I wanted it to be a musical experience, not hot water, cold water, hot water, cold water. That said, I think I’m attracted to what I think is good. I mean, I don’t know if I would include 5 string slap funk bass! But on the other hand, I would find Pete Townsend power chords very good and very exciting, so that’s on my record. I consider Chet Atkins really great and Tom Brumley from the Buckaroos is just as interesting. And I suppose a guy who likes Chet Atkins usually might not like Pete Townsend or Iggy Pop or Minor Threat. But for some reason, instead of not understanding why I do, I don’t understand why most people don’t! [laughs] Virtual Woodshed: The influence I wanted to ask you about in particular was Roy Buchanan. If you listen to "Blues For Roy" back to back with "Pete’s Blues" from Roy’s first album, at times you almost sound more like Roy than Roy does. How do you manage to channel him so well? Jim Campilongo: Ha! [laughs] You know, I don’t really. And yeah, that’s the one. "Pete’s Blues" is the Roy track for me. A lot of people like "Messiah" or "Sweet Dreams" but I heard "Pete’s Blues" before I played guitar and when he goes Middle Eastern, I used to want to destroy all the furniture in my room! It was just overwhelming. I was just now reading a thread on the Telecaster discussion page about how people didn’t like Roy, and they didn’t feel like he was musical. So when I teach guitar I tell people get Roy’s first and second album, in that order. Cause, you know, if you get an Alligator record, umm, I don’t know, there’s just something gone. [ed note: later in Roy Buchanan's career, he released several albums on the Alligator label which were largely considered inferior to his earlier efforts.] I feel bad to say that because I have no right to. Roy has given me so much, it gives me no pleasure to criticize anything about him. It’s almost like being critical of your parents! I mean, unless they were beating you when you were little, you really don’t have the right. So I don’t feel better about myself if I can say, "Oh, I’ve grown to the point where I can criticize a Roy record." But all that said, those first two records and specifically "Pete’s Blues", I mean Roy has contributed as much to the electric guitar as Hendrix. In fact, I’m going to listen to it again after this interview because I’m due! You know, I check in with that song at least once a year. And as far as channeling him goes, I really don’t even think about it. I just play. When I was in my teens, I stopped listening to Roy Buchanan because I sounded too much like him. Even if I put on a record, for weeks I would sound just like him, without even learning a lick. Just by putting it on! So, I just have an inclination toward that. And I also think what I’m attracted to in Roy’s playing isn’t "Green Onions" or something like that. I hear guys say they are really into Roy, but what they channel isn’t necessarily what I love about Roy’s playing. I love Roy’s 6th voicings on "Hey Good Lookin’" or when he detunes and does a drone note on Pete’s Blues or when he does distorted octaves. I guess I just channel what I find are the most profound aspects of his musicality.
Virtual Woodshed: Did you ever have a chance to sit down with Roy and interact with him on a personal level? Jim Campilongo: I saw Roy in the Bay area about 20 or 30 times. I stopped seeing him after a while in high school because I had too much of it. I remember one time I saw him in the Berkeley Community Theater when he was big, and his career still had nothing but potential. There probably about 1000 people there and he basically had a bar band with him. And I remember the band stopped at one point and Roy goes "duh-duh-duh, duh-duh-duh, duh-duh-duh, duh-duh-duh, duh-duh-duh, etc" [Jim sings the famous Roy Buchanan chromatic triplet lick that he commonly used to end songs] which went on for at least a minute. And I remember thinking to myself, "I don’t know if I’m enjoying this". So I didn’t go for about three years. And then in ‘81, I was literally driving past The Stone on Broadway and I saw Roy Buchanan’s name in lights and I said "hell with it! I’m going!" So I pulled over, parked, ran in, paid my eight bucks and there was nobody there. And Roy blew my mind that night! I was standing right in front of him and he played some of the greatest guitar I’ve ever seen. I went the next night, and the next night and that culminated in probably 20 shows. Every third or fourth show would just be brilliant. And so, he started to just nod to me, like, I would be standing pretty close to the stage and he would nod as if to say, OK, I recognize you. Finally I brought that ’62 Strat I was talking about to have Roy sign it. I knew the doorman cause I had played that venue and he let me back, and I met Roy and I didn’t utter one single word. He was really nice, but I just couldn’t speak. I don’t know what happened, because I’m usually not at a shortage for words, but it was like meeting Abraham Lincoln! And I couldn’t say a word. So he signed my guitar "Live Happy, Roy Buchanan". I still have it and the signature is still there. Anyway at the end of it, I turned around to walk out and I think he thought I was wasted because he shouted "Hey! You drive home safely!" I just nodded, I still couldn’t even speak. I’m pretty sure he thought I was high and I always crack up on that because I got sobriety advice from Roy Buchanan! [laughs] But anyway, that’s the one time I met him, but I never played with him or anything like that. Virtual Woodshed: You have a technique where you play these really pretty sustained arpeggios and it almost sounds as if you have a chorus pedal on. There’s a good example of this in "Chelsea Bridge" on your CD Orange. How are you doing that? Jim Campilongo: That’s probably where some people tell me I sound a little like Bill Frisell, and I always get slightly annoyed and say "thank you!" [laughs]. And sometimes I guess I do sound a bit like Bill Frisell, but it’s unintentional because I really haven’t listened to him all that much. I think Bill plays great guitar, but despite that he was never one of my main influences. But anyway, what I’m doing is just moving the neck. You grip the body close to your rib and you kind of secure if with your right elbow if you’re right handed and just kind of move the neck. Virtual Woodshed: So, you are physically manhandling the neck back and forth? Jim Campilongo: Oh, hell yeah! [laughs] One of these days man it just may snap! But you know, I do that constantly. I think it started as a crutch and as an extension of the Strat. I’m always out of tune, I assume every guitar player is! On the Strat I’d always use the vibrato bar to hide some of the intonation problems. Think of a D chord, I mean, God help us! For a million bucks I couldn’t play a D chord in tune. So, anyway, that technique came from playing a Strat with a vibrato bar and trying to get that sound. That, and hiding that I’m out of tune. And now I just like the sound. I don’t think it’s a habit, you know like auto-pilot. It’s just a way to coax more sound out of the guitar and I don’t really notice it anymore. Well, wait, then maybe it is a habit, I don’t know! [laughs] But that’s what’s going on there, it’s definitely not a chorus pedal. Virtual Woodshed: You’re rig is generally pretty spartan right? You just plug straight in and go? Jim Campilongo: Correct. That entire record is just straight in an amp. And you know, when I get an email saying "I don’t sound like you and I plugged into a Princeton". Well, I put brand new tubes in it the night before we recorded, New Old Stock tubes. [ed note: aka NOS] The speaker had just been reconed which I was nervous about, but overall yeah, it’s a very simple rig. But then we have mic placement everywhere: every sweet spot in the room. And I kind of ignore some of that, but I think we used a 57 for most of it. I always like to mic the back of the amp as well. I’m really into that. And then we moved stuff all over the place the first day to find the best spot for the guitar and then the best spot for the room mics. And that’s all just stage one. That’s just the beginning. Then we reamped some of the tracks where we bring the signal out of the console and then I ran it into an old Vibrolux and a Matt Wells amp that I played on "Backburner": two totally different amps that we’ll print and have as an available track. Then we added plate reverb. So there’s reverb from the amp and there’s also this plate reverb going on. And then there was some compression going on. All this happens afterwards, and then it’s mixed and then it’s mastered, and so yeah sure, I "plugged straight into my amp"! Or that’s the headline, anyway. But when it’s all said and done, I think it’s all about just trying to capture what I sound like live, which hopefully, if the stars are in line can be pretty damn good on a good night. You know? All that was done to get me to sound like I’m playing in a venue that has some wood in it at midnight.
Virtual Woodshed: OK. So then how does this new recording compare with some of your true live material like Live at Du Nord? Jim Campilongo: I didn’t like that album at first. I have this weird pet peeve about the noise the snare makes against the drum head when it’s not engaged. And that sound is all over that album! It sounds like a broken speaker. Also I thought my tone wasn’t really bright enough. Like there’s this certain vibrancy that I get that is just missing on that album. On great Hendrix recordings for example there’s all these great overtones going on to where it’s almost like a second voice for the guitar. And that’s what I love about my Telecaster. Sometimes I’ll be playing a solo and I’ll move quickly and my belt buckle will hit the back and go "ding"! It really creates all these cool overtones and I’m like "Yeah"! Anyway, those overtones weren’t present on Live At The Du Nord. So I couldn’t listen to it for a real long time. Then one day about two years ago I had iTunes on shuffle and "Panhandle Rag" from the Du Nord album came on and I honestly didn’t know who it was for a second! I thought, wow those guys are pretty good. I thought it was Robben Ford or something, and then I said, wait a minute, that’s me! I thought it was good and loose and so now I love it. That snare sound doesn’t bother me as much now and I appreciate the playing of Scott Amendola. I guess that’s the happy ending. Virtual Woodshed: The music scene today is changing rapidly. Record labels are folding, studios and venues are closing. So let’s say for a minute that you’re a twenty two year old, fairly accomplished guitar player in middle America. What kind of advice do you give this young player to really get into the scene and make a living out of music. Jim Campilongo: Well, I have a quick answer, but it’s an answer that I give in a lot of context. I would simply say "learn songs". That’s the advice I always tell everybody, whether they want to become a better guitar player or this or that or whatever. The thing you can control is learning songs. We can’t control if clubs go out of business, but if you can play “Tico Tico” or a bossa nova, even if it’s just pretty good, there’s a chance you can go to a bus station in Europe and connect with people. And that’s the thing you can control. So many guitar players seem to focus on everything but that, I mean really knowing a genre. Like for instance, what are all the country instrumentals one needs to know, or what are the two hundred jazz standards one needs to know? Learn a Chet Atkins song. It’s not impossible! Learn two, so you can play at Christmastime and entertain your family. It’s something I work on and still have trouble with. If I do a clinic I usually bring a Boomerang so I can record a rhythm track and play along with it, because I concentrate on other things like songwriting and ballad playing I’m not the solo guitarist I’d really like to be… [pauses] What’s that guy’s name from Australia? Virtual Woodshed: Tommy Emmanuel? Jim Campilongo: Yeah, Tommy Emmanuel. That guy will never ever have trouble making a living, I guarantee you. I don’t care what the music scene is like or even if mp3’s are intravenously fed into our brains! Tommy Emmanuel is going to make a living, a real good living. ‘Cause he’s got some Vaudeville in him and he knows a million tunes and he can play all of them really good. I saw a Youtube clip of him playing some Django tune and he really did it convincingly! But really, I have no magic Facebook answer to your question. Perhaps some people will tell you to give away 20,000 CD’s but I don’t believe in that. I don’t believe people should give their music away. Certainly give it out to press and so forth, but don’t act like it’s a given that it’s all going to be free. Value your investment in music and others will too. I don’t expect to get rich playing bars and clubs around here. Hell, the pay scale seems to be the same as it was in 1976. Some of the post-Dylan mentality is not to entertain, but rather to express your innermost feelings and perspectives. I don’t really want to go out with a hot chick and hear somebody expressing their innermost feelings over a meandering E minor chord. [laughs] I’d rather see Tommy Emmanuel. Or even WC Fields juggling shoeboxes. Or Charlie Chaplin, or Merle Travis, or Chet Atkins. I think these guys had a mentality that they were in a bus station in Birmingham and they were able to pull out their guitar and earn their dinner. There was a priority in their music to connect with people and ultimately entertain them. Virtual Woodshed: It sounds like you are saying there is a fine line between entertainment and art. Jim Campilongo: Yeah. But, I don’t think Chet Atkins sounds corrupt, like say an American Idol winner. That show is just a commercial for itself. Each artist has a responsibility to make himself palatable to an audience. And it isn’t palatable to most folks to hear to a 14 minute version of “Green Onions” played incredibly loud just because the guitar player could "get his tone, man". [laughs] So musicians have to take responsibility too. I don’t think Tommy Emmanuel is having any problem! He’s like the bar we all should strive for in the context of being an entertaining solo guitarist. Or Duane Allman! God help us, that guy was 24 years old! But we all can’t be geniuses and I’m certainly not. I’m almost bitter at how hard it is to learn the guitar. I think that I should be much better [than I am], and why does it take me so long to memorize a song? It’s an amazing amount of work and I recognize that. So along those lines, I respect anybody who even plays an E minor chord and expresses their innermost emotions. It’s better than playing a video game. But to automatically expect that people are going to run out and buy your record… why would they do that? And in a way, I’m not really living by what I’m saying because I kind of do exactly what I want. But there is [something palatable like] "Awful Pretty, Pretty Awful" in the mix. That’s fun for the whole family! It’s on there! You know, it isn’t some Euro fusion guy with one of those yellow guitars with the handle in it playing a 20 minute solo. I think my instrumental music is pretty commercial compared to that. I get asked at least once a week "Hey! have you ever thought of getting a singer"? And I know they kind of view me as the Fabulous Baker Boys and you know, I’m secretly hoping that Michele Pheifer shows up at one of my gigs to sing "My Funny Valentine"! Virtual Woodshed: I’m sure we’ve got a lot of readers who will be curious to know what it was like to work with Norah Jones. You’ve obviously worked with her on a number of occasions. What was it like recording the Little Willies album? Jim Campilongo: [chuckles] Well, it was pretty ridiculously loose. We recorded in their apartment, and I had just gotten in from Finland the night before. And I was so exhausted that I wanted to take the Subway for some reason, so I called Lee [Alexander - bass player] and said "you have a Princeton right?" and he said yeah, so I said, "great, I’ll just use yours." So I show up and Lee’s Princeton is in the bathroom. So when I look back on it, I’m thinking, wow that was probably the biggest record I’ve ever made. You know, I brought like four or five amps to make Orange but for the Little Willies record I borrowed an amp! [laughs] But that was pretty much the mindset of the entire band. It was kind of deemed like a holiday. You know, it wasn’t serious as cancer or anything. So Richard [Julian], the singer, is a really dedicated artist, don’t get the wrong impression, but he’s also a really dedicated margarita maker! [laughs] So that was kind of a priority throughout the sessions, but I didn’t drink. I said "man I’m tracking here." But everybody kind of partied, and fun was definitely one of the priorities. Everything was done live and we just recorded for three days and really had fun. At the end of the three days I got to be on a hit record! [laughs] You know, I’ll get email from Japan from people who’ve heard it. And I’m certainly not oblivious to Norah’s fame, but honestly while we were recording I kind of forgot that this record was going to be heard by more people than have ever heard me before. But all that said, the record has a nice feel and I did a couple solos that I would have never done if I had had a lot of time to think about it. On a couple of ‘em I’m beyond going for it, and I don’t hear much responsibility in my playing.
Virtual Woodshed: On "Never Get Out Of This World Alive" you sound like you were wide open. Jim Campilongo: Yeah, wide open. And really, not conscious that we were even recording. Even if you see somebody recording one of your gigs, there’s like 1/100th of your mind that knows you’re recording but with the Little Willies it wasn’t even that. I mean, we’re in Norah’s apartment and certainly there was an engineer and some sophisticated equipment, but really I just forgot that we were recording. Virtual Woodshed: What is Norah’s recording philosophy like? Jim Campilongo: Norah is really into the moment, even more so than me. It’s really cool that someone who is world famous isn’t [afraid of spontaneity]. For example, a lot of times we’d do a take and I might feel like it was the best one, but she’d say "let’s do it again" but she’d change it. Sometimes we’d change the key, and it would be the first time I played it in that key. Or she’d change the feel and she’d change how she sang, so I’d have to change how I played. And if we did it a third time, she’d change it again. It was never like rehearsing the same version and letting it get better and better which is what I normally do. Virtual Woodshed: So she was really trying to pull your gut instinct out of you. It sounds like that’s one of her production techniques? Jim Campilongo: I think she’s bored really quickly. Or you could say she really has a jazz mentality. Yeah, that’s a better way to put it. And so does everybody in that band really; certainly [drummer] Dan Reeser does. And that [mentality] is, well let’s do it right now, otherwise it’s going to be kind of "schticky". You know, if you keep doing the same thing over and over again, it’s not real. Even though as a guitar player I think I do have a jazz mentality in the context of what we’re talking about, I still like to get a bunch of takes over the same track so I can find the one with the perfect guitar solo. It never really happens but you try to get close to that. So I didn’t really get that opportunity with the Willies record, but because of that I think it’s fun to listen to. There’s something intangible about it. Virtual Woodshed: So given all the looseness of the sessions, and the margaritas, and the borrowed amp, were you overall satisfied with your tone that went down to print? Jim Campilongo: I honestly haven’t listened to it in a while. This is probably unsatisfactory but I really don’t listen to what I do that much. I haven’t listened to that record in a year or two. The last time I listened to it I remember liking a few things about it. I can tell you that I really didn’t like my solo in "Gotta Get Drunk". They picked the one I really didn’t want and I think I got out of time a little bit and that bothers me. I loved "For The Good Times" and turned out to be a bonus track that wasn’t even on the CD. I’m really happy [the album] happened, but no, I don’t think it was the best I could do. Virtual Woodshed: I’ve heard people say the Willie’s album sounds "the least like Jim" of all your recordings. It doesn’t really seem to have as much of your trademark reverb drenched tone as something like Orange or Heaven Is Creepy. Jim Campilongo: That’s probably true to some degree. When I did the Martha Wainwright gig, sometimes I was invisible and yet totally supportive. It’s like a spice in the recipe that you can’t really taste but is still essential, I would like to think anyway! [laughs] I feel like I’m a good sideman that way, and in some ways the Willies record is like "Jim Lite". [laughs] On the other hand, Ben Ratliff from the NY Times, who is really a fine musical mind, said my playing [on that album] was bizarre and disruptive, but he said he ended up really liking it for that. So as far as "Jim-Lite" goes, Ben Ratliff found it shocking! But we didn’t have a Nashville [session guitarist] with rackmountable gear and two compressors come in and lay down a track. It’s so not like that, and in that way I guess it is bizarre and disruptive. Virtual Woodshed: But is it really fair for a critic to compare the Willies album to what’s coming out of Nashville these days? Jim Campilongo: Well, it’s the most appropriate analogy I guess. I suppose you could compare it to country music of the 60’s or something, but it wasn’t trying to be that either. It was more like, "well, we love this music and this is how we do it". That pretty much sums up that record. I’m really proud of it. And that’s not just the press release. I’m proud that I was able to be on that record with those people. I’m so lucky, and I’m so happy I moved to NY. Virtual Woodshed: How do you practice? Do you have a standard regimen? Jim Campilongo: Well, I go through phases where I don’t practice because I have too much homework or other priorities. This morning I quickly learned "O Lucky Man" by Alan Price because I have to play it tonight at a rehearsal. And then I also had to go through a Richard Thompson song for that same reason, and it took me about a half hour to do both. I don’t know, I might practice today, but I’ve got a three or four hour rehearsal tonight and I might go for a walk instead. Now if things like that aren’t happening, then that’s the ideal, because I love the benefits of practicing. I hate to sit there and do it, but… it’s like sit ups, which I haven’t done in a long time [laughs], but if memory serves me correct, I used to put my feet under a chair that could hold them. And I’d lay there on the floor and think, my God, this is the most comfortable I’ve ever been. I really don’t want to do these sit ups! [laughs]. It felt like I was laying on a thousand dollar bed, but I was just laying on the floor. And practice is like that every day for me. I’m like, eh, I don’t want to sit down, I hate sitting down, it’s so nice out, I could go for a walk. Or I’ll say "Oh! I could vacuum", and so I’ll go vacuum some, but then I’ll come back to, "Oh, I have to practice now." So I’ll practice and then I’ll be really glad I did it. Usually I’ll run through some kind of scales that I feel challenged by. Lately I’ve been trying to do sixteenth notes like [Jim sings a major scale in which he plays a full measure of sixteenth notes on each degree of the scale]. And it’s important to do it with a metronome because I feel like my right hand benefits from that. I’ll do that with harmonic minor, melodic minor and major scale. OK? That’s fifteen or twenty minutes well spent. Then I’ll move to a tune. I love to play things like "All The Things You Are" because it goes through a lot of chords and it’s melodic. I’ll do a tune and try to do different approaches in that tune, like using sixths or thirds or two/five movements. I’ve been working on the tune "Laura" which is a difficult tune for me. A jazz guy might think it’s really easy, but you know, I’ll inevitably end up practicing jazz standards. I’ll do the scales and then I’ll try to play through a standard. I never, ever practice country. Never! And it’s funny because that’s what people expect me to play; in New York that’s what I’m known for. But I never practice that. I might play arpeggios over the chord changes, I’ll practice using chord movement with as small an intervalic jump as possible. If I’m going from Fm to Bm to E7 to Ab, can I do that with just a few intervalic movements? Those sound good to me and it’s a really good exercise. Once in a while I’ll sit down and really learn a lot of new material. For example, about a month and a half ago I had some down time and I learned “Cannonball Rag” which is great because I can use it at clinics. And I learned "She’s a Woman" off Chet Atkins’ "Picks on the Beatles". Lately a tune I’ve really been practicing is "’Round Midnight" and I’m trying to do my own thing on it.
Virtual Woodshed: Oh, I’d love to hear that sometime. Jim Campilongo: OK. Well, it’s not really developed and it takes me forever. It’s in Eb minor and it’s a Monk tune so it’s weird. The tune is like this [Jim plays the melody straight], but I figured it out this way [Jim then plays the melody in his own style using open strings, behind the nut bends and chromatic dissonance]. So it’s kind of like my own thing. I hear it like Shakespeare, you know? I’ve got to learn it the right way first. I went through a phase where I sound like a poor man’s Joe Pass. I actually take jazz guitar lessons.
Virtual Woodshed: Really? With whom? Jim Campilongo: Jack Wilkins. And I’ve been meaning to ask him how he would play ['Round Midnight]. And he’s a lifetime jazz guy; a fantastic solo jazz guitar player. I want to work on that aspect of my playing and not just because I find it incredibly interesting and challenging, but hopefully it will help get me to the finish line which in this case is some kind of profound knowledge of music, the fingerboard and harmony. I’d like to be able to play until I’m an old man. Virtual Woodshed: It’s interesting that a minute ago you made reference to "a jazz guy" as if you weren’t one. But a lot of people do think of you as a jazz guy. Your jazz arrangements are phenomenal! For example, on something like "When You Wish Upon A Star", how much of that is improv and how much is composition? Jim Campilongo: I think it was probably about 70% composition. I was really nervous about that one because I was recording it and you know, time is money in the studio. So I went in fairly prepared. I’m really glad you like it, and actually I’m very proud of that track. I think it has a great vibe and I kind of achieved what I wanted to achieve. And as far as me taking jazz guitar lessons, when I say Jack Wilkins is a jazz guy, I mean, he’s a very versatile guitar player, but he’s got flatwounds, he’s got a big hollowbody. I mean, he’s got a certain mentality like…[pauses]
Virtual Woodshed: You mean kind of like you won’t hear Howard Alden playing any Don Rich licks? Jim Campilongo: Yeah, in fact Jack plays duets with Howard Alden! They’re sidekicks. And they’re not the same, but yes, [Jack] is very much like Howard Alden. So maybe it’s unfair or limiting to describe Howard Alden as a "jazz guy". But anyway, Jack Wilkins is a great teacher. He’ll play something amazing like [Jim sings a few bars of a descending jazz line] and I’ll say "Wow, Jack what was that?" And he says "it’s just A minor!" [laughs] And I’m like, really?! I know A minor! But when it’s all said and done, I’ll look back at it and go, well, it kind of is just A minor. But I can only tell your readers this: if any of them have ever bought or rented an instructional DVD and learned a new idea then they know how great that feels. It’s like getting six new suits and an overcoat and a pair of new shoes, I mean you just feel like a new man. And that’s how I feel when I got to my lessons. It’s like "wow, I never saw this particular thing from that angle." So guitar is like 3D chess and sometimes a certain perspective you might walk by a thousand times and never notice. And Jack will say, "oh, this is that!", and I’ll think to myself, "you know, I never saw that." To me that’s just as great as the best movie I’ve ever seen or the best dinner I’ve ever had. It’s really gratifying and if I somehow got to where I couldn’t experience that anymore, I just couldn’t imagine it. In fact, I can’t believe anybody could ever get to that point, including Howard Alden or Chet Atkins. And maybe there’s a certain humility to it that I’m not aware of, but yeah, I take lessons and I can’t wait for my next one. Virtual Woodshed: Those paradigm shifts keep music interesting don’t they? It’s neat to see the light bulb go off in a student’s mind when they make some of those connections. Jim Campilongo: That definitely has some meaning to me. Because sometimes I’ll show people things and they don’t have that response, and I have to wonder what that says about them. For example, sometimes I’ll say [to the student] "hey, you know C right? well, lift your index finger and you’ve got Cmajor7! And they look at me and their eyes are dead and they say "oh, OK, Cmajor7, got it." And I think, my God, when somebody showed me that I stayed on it for like two weeks! Then I taped it and jammed over it playing a C pentatonic moved down to the 5th fret. I mean, that realization changed my life for at least a month and to have somebody take that for granted… you know, I don’t comment on it, but I think to myself "wow, what’s up with you?!" But OK, so I’m a guy who’s dedicated his life to the guitar and I still get excited about music, and I’ve been playing for a thousand years and so forth. But I find more and more that people aren’t excited about things as they should be. I guess a thousand years ago, some guy was probably sitting around with an instrument that only had three notes, just going duh, duh, duh [Jim sings a 1st inversion major triad]. You know, that was it, all day just playing those three notes. And sometimes I wish the guitar just had those three notes. It sure would be a lot easier!
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